Re: "Chinlish" or English? (Kyle Simmons)

[Karl Norman <kylesimmons0164 -at- gmail -dot- com>]

With regards to your questions:

I would definitely make some changes before publishing. The reviewer raises
some good points with appropriate concern for the reading audience.

Will someone in the U.S. think it's in Chinglish? I think at worst someone
would think that whoever wrote it maybe didn't have a good command of
grammar. Most likely they won't care.

The reviewer's comments are a mix of personal preference (or
personal style) and some good recommendations. The reviewer ought to know
that organizational style trumps personal style.

For #1, I'd go with something similar to what Gene suggested (i.e. a
bulleted list of actions the patient should refrain from for 20 minutes
prior to use).

For #2, "In [armpit] mode, the probe must contact the patient's skin."
"Directly contact" is redundant and "be in contact with" puts the main
action into the verb BE, which is poor stylistically. In context, a
proficient English speaker will understand the meaning of the verb contact.

For #3, I agree with Robert that the meaning has been changed. Seems we're
missing the context to make a good call on that one.

If your reviewers are commonly holding up your product releases, you need
discuss levels of editing with them. It wouldn't hurt to have a rhetorical
triangle for each product so everyone can understand the relationship
between audience and document better. Then they can ask themselves "is this
really a problem, or am I making it a problem?" When I have people say
"well but what if they read it like....." I try to consider whether that
scenario that they've thought up falls into the rhetorical situation for
that document. It's a good way to gauge within a reasonable margin how
strenuous your edits need to be. Additionally, it might be good to take
some time to update your style guide to avoid going back and forth on some
of these minutiae.


On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 12:55 AM, <techwr-l-request -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. "Chinlish" or English? (M -dot- Vina-Baltsas -at- mindray -dot- com)
>    2. Re: "Chinlish" or English? (Monique Semp)
>    3. Re: "Chinlish" or English? (Gene Kim-Eng)
>    4. Re: "Chinlish" or English? (Robert Lauriston)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 09:10:26 -0400
> From: M -dot- Vina-Baltsas -at- mindray -dot- com
> To: TECHWR-L <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: "Chinlish" or English?
> Message-ID:
>         <
> OFFFE6AE18 -dot- 3779C987-ON85257D42 -dot- 004661EA-85257D42 -dot- 00484A0A -at- mindray -dot- com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> Our manuals are written in China. Once we receive them in the US, we send
> them to our project team for their comments/edits. One reviewer had the
> following comments, among MANY others.  I'm wondering what you all think
> about them. In your professional opinion, is the original content that
> poorly written or do you think it's written well enough to be published?
> Do you think that someone from the US would think that if left unchanged,
> the manual is in "Chinlish" ? Is this a matter of personal preference or
> are they really written poorly? I will add that his comments are holding
> up the release of the product.. I will not share my opinion at this time.
>
>
> 1) Patient actions may interfere with oral temperature measurements.
> Ingesting
> hot or cold liquids, eating food, chewing gum, brushing teeth, smoking, or
> performing strenuous activities may affect temperature measurements for up
> to 20 minutes after ending the activity.
>
> His suggestion: Should say "Ingesting hot or cold liquids, eating hot or
> cold food, chewing gum, brushing teeth, smoking, or
> performing strenuous activities may affect temperature measurements.
> Ensure that patient refrains from these for
> at least 20 minutes before a temperature measurement is made.
>
>
> 2)  In the axillary mode, the probe should directly contact the patient?s
> skin.
>
> His suggestion: This implies that the probe somehow contacts the patient's
> skin (via telephone maybe?).  Should be corrected to read
> " In the axillary mode, the probe should be in contact with the patient?s
> skin"
>
>
> 3) Make sure that the temperature measurement site is correct.
> His suggestion: "Ensure that the probe chosen is appropriate for the
> measurement site"
>
> Thanks.
> ________________________________________________________________
>
> Michelle Vina-Baltsas
>
>
>
> 800 MacArthur Blvd.
> Mahwah, NJ 07430
>
> Tel: 201.995.8350
> m -dot- vina-baltsas -at- mindray -dot- com
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 06:24:25 -0700
> From: "Monique Semp" <monique -dot- semp -at- earthlink -dot- net>
> To: "TECHWR-L" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>,
>         <M -dot- Vina-Baltsas -at- mindray -dot- com>
> Subject: Re: "Chinlish" or English?
> Message-ID: <D55984AF1AED4BE6B144356244B0A2E8 -at- WQIMJS>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8";
>         reply-type=original
>
> Doesn't seem like a "Chin[g]lish" or "English" problem so much as normal
> editing issues.
>
> For (1), the edit creates a more actionable, clear imperative instructions,
> so I prefer the edit.
>
> For (2), I'd revise further to make it more direct and less
> open-to-interpretation (does "should" mean "must" or "it's better, but ok
> if
> not"?): "in auxiliary mode, the probe must contact the patient's skin."
>
> For (3), the whole thing seems lacking in info about how to choose the
> correct/appropriate probe. Obviously nobody wants to choose the wrong one,
> but if the user doesn't know what makes the right device "right" or
> "appropriate", it's a useless directive.
>
> I'd say that "ensure" vs. "make sure" is a style thing: choose one. I don?t
> think it matters particularly much, and doubt that either would cause
> confusion or translation errors.
>
> Bummer that this is holding up the release, but refreshing to hear that
> some
> place actually considers the docs an important enough part of the project
> that this can happen. So take solace in that!
>
> -Monique
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 08:13:51 -0700
> From: Gene Kim-Eng <techwr -at- genek -dot- com>
> To: M -dot- Vina-Baltsas -at- mindray -dot- com, TECHWR-L <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: Re: "Chinlish" or English?
> Message-ID: <53FF472F -dot- 9060608 -at- genek -dot- com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> It's "Chinglish," and I would think if your company hires tech writers
> and/or editors in the US and has documents reviewed by the US project
> team, then it's doing that because it wants problems in the overseas
> generated documents corrected?
>
> As for the specific examples, here's what I would do for them:
>
> 1) Patient actions may affect oral temperature measurements for up to 20
> minutes:
>
>   * Ingesting hot or cold liquids
>   * Eating food
>   * Chewing gum
>   * Brushing teeth
>   * Smoking
>   * Strenuous activities
>
> 2) Flip a coin.
>
> 3) Use the reviewer's version
>
> Gene Kim-Eng
>
>
> On 8/28/2014 6:10 AM, M -dot- Vina-Baltsas -at- mindray -dot- com wrote:
> > Our manuals are written in China. Once we receive them in the US, we send
> > them to our project team for their comments/edits. One reviewer had the
> > following comments, among MANY others.  I'm wondering what you all think
> > about them.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 09:51:40 -0700
> From: Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
> To: M -dot- Vina-Baltsas -at- mindray -dot- com, TECHWR-L <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: Re: "Chinlish" or English?
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAN3Yy4CY8LaJu6RnOqHZ-5WXy9ap8Z9UHdXX3jihu4cs1Tfn9w -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> The original's not bad and to me was not obviously written by a
> non-native speaker.
>
> The suggested edit for #3 radically changes the meaning. Is it correct?
>
> The suggested edits for #1 and #2 don't seem to improve things enough
> that I'm sure it's worth the time and money.
>
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 6:10 AM,  <M -dot- Vina-Baltsas -at- mindray -dot- com> wrote:
> > 3) Make sure that the temperature measurement site is correct.
> > His suggestion: "Ensure that the probe chosen is appropriate for the
> > measurement site"
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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-- 
*Kyle Simmons*

Technical Writer
Aloe Vera of America, Inc.

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