Re: Flare or Frame as an intermediary for migrating to DITA?

[Chris Despopoulos <despopoulos_chriss -at- yahoo -dot- com>]

I think the question is a little bit odd.  Convert WHAT exactly to DITA?  Maybe your best bet is to save as HTML and use the OT to convert that to DITA.  I just don't see enough information in the question.

Another consideration...  What shape is your unstructured doc in?  Does it easily divide into topics?  Can you identify points to automatically convert X into a topic, and beyond that, to establish the nesting of topics?  Are you sure you have a clear automation path, no matter what tool you use?  If not, why don't you just use the authoring environment you plan to stay with?



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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Word 2013 - Comments grayed out (Guillaume Tourrette)
   2. RE: Flare or Frame as an intermediary for migrating to DITA?
      (Janoff, Steven)
   3. Calling all math whizzes (Chris Morton)
   4. Re: Calling all math whizzes (Robert Lauriston)
   5. Re: Calling all math whizzes (Chris Morton)
   6. Re: Calling all math whizzes (Lin Sims)
   7. Re: Calling all math whizzes (Lin Sims)
   8. Re: Calling all math whizzes (Chris Morton)
   9. Re: Calling all math whizzes (Chris Morton)
  10. Re: Calling all math whizzes (Monique Semp)
  11. Re: Calling all math whizzes (Dossy Shiobara)
  12. Re: Calling all math whizzes (Chris Morton)
  13. Re: Calling all math whizzes (John G)
  14. Re: Calling all math whizzes (Jay Maechtlen)
  15. syntax diagramming tool (Robert Lauriston)
  16. Re: Flare or Frame as an intermediary for migrating to DITA?
      (Scott Turner)
  17. Re: syntax diagramming tool (Laura Lemay)
  18. RE: Flare or Frame as an intermediary for migrating to DITA?
      (Janoff, Steven)
  19. Re: syntax diagramming tool (Robert Lauriston)
  20. Re: syntax diagramming tool (Laura Lemay)
  21. Re: Flare or Frame as an intermediary for migrating to DITA?
      (Mark Giffin)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:44:09 +0100
From: Guillaume Tourrette <guillaume -dot- tourrette -at- gmail -dot- com>
To: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
Subject: Re: Word 2013 - Comments grayed out
Message-ID:
    <CAG=X6JdXnnLKfSGA8v37AVHfhZu2u-BkQJ2Bxnksvi4jmzDEuQ -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Chris,

As you found out, Word does not allow you to add comments on a text box. If
you must be able to comment, you can use frames instead of text boxes.

To add frames in Word 2010/2013, on the "Developer" tab, in the "Controls"
group, select "Legacy Tools", then click "Insert Frame".

http://tinyurl.com/addingframes

Hope this helps!

Guillaume


> Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 06:48:59 -0700
> From: Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>
> To: Word-Pc List <WORD-PC -at- liverpool -dot- ac -dot- uk>,
>         "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: Word 2013 - Comments grayed out
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAO7RWYQR8R8_Gm3GszduXAZrRVt_Jk-+uc1atvi1VZAO0n_qGA -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I'm editing several docs for a client using Word 2013.
>
> Why would the *New Comment* menu item be grayed out?
>
> Thanks
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 16:28:46 +0000
From: "Janoff, Steven" <Steven -dot- Janoff -at- hologic -dot- com>
To: Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>,
    "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com"    <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Subject: RE: Flare or Frame as an intermediary for migrating to DITA?
Message-ID:
    <E7C7A1460010834090FD4D6E82F28D151C81386A -at- ussdexch01 -dot- hologic -dot- corp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thanks, Robert -- this helps big-time.

Steve

On Sunday, October 12, 2014 11:39 AM, Robert Lauriston wrote:

I wouldn't use FrameMaker as an intermediary. It's not very good at importing anything.

Flare does a pretty clean job of importing Word and FrameMaker, and can export to DITA. However, I'm not sure that would save you any time over using whatever native tools your DITA environment has. Worth a try but I would not expect much if any of the content to be tagged correctly.

On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Janoff, Steven <Steven -dot- Janoff -at- hologic -dot- com> wrote:
> Short version of the question:  If you're converting legacy content from unstructured to structured in XML/DITA, and let's say you have or will have a CCMS with either a built-in XML editor or a third-party one like oXygen or XMetaL... Would it make sense to use either Flare or Structured FrameMaker as your intermediary to convert unstructured content to XML/DITA and then export to your CCMS with editor?


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:49:43 -0700
From: Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>
To: "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Subject: Calling all math whizzes
Message-ID:
    <CAO7RWYQw8LK4vPCc-N4FPrzu3C=Ymc8qrz1Z1bGraNxM=Ozc_g -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I've never seen this nomenclature before: 2^80

Does this mean 2 to the 80th power?

Is there a better way to express it, such as eliminating the carat and
superscripting the 80?

The target audience is IT folks running data centers and other web geeks. I
don't think anyone can assume that each has a higher mathematics degree.

Thanks


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:54:52 -0700
From: Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
To: Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>
Cc: "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Subject: Re: Calling all math whizzes
Message-ID:
    <CAN3Yy4C+F2A_zX_Nz352D3pVB=hwkexzfaDHudb8TV9m=uEt0w -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Yes. It's commonly used when superscript is not available.

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com> wrote:
> I've never seen this nomenclature before: 2^80
>
> Does this mean 2 to the 80th power?
>
> Is there a better way to express it, such as eliminating the carat and
> superscripting the 80?


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:59:44 -0700
From: Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>
To: Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>,
    "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Subject: Re: Calling all math whizzes
Message-ID:
    <CAO7RWYStLXwj4E7j29HhjEY88JCSbx9354LTDZhLfw+uxLTsfw -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I answered my own question about using *2<sup>80</sup>*.

Wouldn't this be more commonly understood by non-math majors.

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>
wrote:

> Thanks... will the intended audience understand?
>
> Doesn't HTML support superscript? (It's been awhile since I dabbled in
> HTML.)
>
> On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
> wrote:
>
>> Yes. It's commonly used when superscript is not available.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>
>> wrote:
>> > I've never seen this nomenclature before: 2^80
>> >
>> > Does this mean 2 to the 80th power?
>> >
>> > Is there a better way to express it, such as eliminating the carat and
>> > superscripting the 80?
>>
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 14:06:12 -0400
From: Lin Sims <ljsims -dot- ml -at- gmail -dot- com>
To: Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>
Cc: "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Subject: Re: Calling all math whizzes
Message-ID:
    <CA+MomCjMusBEBoeqDG+=Jhpup8rdNM9Rs-OTq8spMsieBGBJEA -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Either would work. Most IT types will recognize it as it is an accepted way
of indicating superscript, especially, but not exclusively, when you only
have ASCII to work with.

That being said, I prefer seeing exponents superscripted. There's less
chance of confusion, and it looks prettier, darn it.

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com> wrote:

> I answered my own question about using *2<sup>80</sup>*.
>
> Wouldn't this be more commonly understood by non-math majors.
>
> On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks... will the intended audience understand?
> >
> > Doesn't HTML support superscript? (It's been awhile since I dabbled in
> > HTML.)
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Yes. It's commonly used when superscript is not available.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > I've never seen this nomenclature before: 2^80
> >> >
> >> > Does this mean 2 to the 80th power?
> >> >
> >> > Is there a better way to express it, such as eliminating the carat and
> >> > superscripting the 80?
> >>
> >
> >
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Read about how Georgia System Operation Corporation improved teamwork,
> communication, and efficiency using Doc-To-Help | http://bit.ly/1lRPd2l
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as ljsims -dot- ml -at- gmail -dot- com -dot- 
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-- 
Lin Sims


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 14:08:58 -0400
From: Lin Sims <ljsims -dot- ml -at- gmail -dot- com>
To: Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>
Cc: "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Subject: Re: Calling all math whizzes
Message-ID:
    <CA+MomCiFieSC2-03uraKs2qbgkOcDEekGkxY8g9aZoWYTtSOkg -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

This probably doesn't need to be said, but remember that if you are
providing examples of CODE, to leave it as-is with the carat. Most of the
coding languages I've seen don't support extended formatting such as
superscripts.

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Lin Sims <ljsims -dot- ml -at- gmail -dot- com> wrote:

> Either would work. Most IT types will recognize it as it is an accepted
> way of indicating superscript, especially, but not exclusively, when you
> only have ASCII to work with.
>
> That being said, I prefer seeing exponents superscripted. There's less
> chance of confusion, and it looks prettier, darn it.
>
> On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>
> wrote:
>
>> I answered my own question about using *2<sup>80</sup>*.
>>
>> Wouldn't this be more commonly understood by non-math majors.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Thanks... will the intended audience understand?
>> >
>> > Doesn't HTML support superscript? (It's been awhile since I dabbled in
>> > HTML.)
>> >
>> > On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Robert Lauriston <
>> robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Yes. It's commonly used when superscript is not available.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > I've never seen this nomenclature before: 2^80
>> >> >
>> >> > Does this mean 2 to the 80th power?
>> >> >
>> >> > Is there a better way to express it, such as eliminating the carat
>> and
>> >> > superscripting the 80?
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Read about how Georgia System Operation Corporation improved teamwork,
>> communication, and efficiency using Doc-To-Help | http://bit.ly/1lRPd2l
>>
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as ljsims -dot- ml -at- gmail -dot- com -dot- 
>>
>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>> techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
>>
>>
>> Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot-  Visit
>> http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/ for more resources and
>> info.
>>
>> Looking for articles on Technical Communications?  Head over to our
>> online magazine at http://techwhirl.com
>>
>> Looking for the archived Techwr-l email discussions?  Search our public
>> email archives @ http://techwr-l.com/archives
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
>



-- 
Lin Sims


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 11:09:07 -0700
From: Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>
To: Simon North <simonxml -at- gmail -dot- com>,     "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com"
    <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Subject: Re: Calling all math whizzes
Message-ID:
    <CAO7RWYR1MYGHgDU50F4-8W34Uxt1ZJby+yBKjzE0=JH+4Yx8JA -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Sorry, but I don't think that's any better than *2^80* when it comes to the
non-math major audience.

Since the delivery will be via HTML blog, I think *2<sup>80</sup>* (when
rendered) is more quickly understood, without any reader having to scratch
their head and think for even a moment, "Now, what does that mean?"

Anyone disagree?

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Simon North <simonxml -at- gmail -dot- com> wrote:

> It's quite common notation, but you can also write 2**80.
>
> Simon.
>
>
>
> > On Oct 13, 2014, at 19:49, Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com> wrote:
> >
> > I've never seen this nomenclature before: 2^80
> >
> > Does this mean 2 to the 80th power?
> >
> > Is there a better way to express it, such as eliminating the carat and
> > superscripting the 80?
> >
> > The target audience is IT folks running data centers and other web
> geeks. I
> > don't think anyone can assume that each has a higher mathematics degree.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > Read about how Georgia System Operation Corporation improved teamwork,
> communication, and efficiency using Doc-To-Help | http://bit.ly/1lRPd2l
> >
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as Simonxml -at- gmail -dot- com -dot- 
> >
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> >
> >
> > Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot-  Visit
> > http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/ for more resources
> and info.
> >
> > Looking for articles on Technical Communications?  Head over to our
> online magazine at http://techwhirl.com
> >
> > Looking for the archived Techwr-l email discussions?  Search our public
> email archives @ http://techwr-l.com/archives
>


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 11:15:42 -0700
From: Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>
To: Lin Sims <ljsims -dot- ml -at- gmail -dot- com>
Cc: "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Subject: Re: Calling all math whizzes
Message-ID:
    <CAO7RWYS7QGAnufmULKHzJ6OCAxZWt7ScEJCnEDsT-QfFj1y8EQ -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

>
> That being said, I prefer seeing exponents superscripted. There's less
> chance of confusion, and it looks prettier, darn it.
>

The blog author is citing a PhD dissertation, where all such numbers are
superscripted.

My take is that any sixth grader knows what a superscripted number in this
context designates. And since effective business writing aims for a
7th-grade reading level, superscripting seems a far better choice, IMO. If
the reader (like me*) has to pause for even a moment to think about what
2^80 means, then readability suffers.

*I got as far as trig and have since read too many computer journals to
count (albeit not ones dealing with algorithmic functions).

> Chris


------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 11:27:15 -0700
From: "Monique Semp" <monique -dot- semp -at- earthlink -dot- net>
To: <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>,    "Lin Sims" <ljsims -dot- ml -at- gmail -dot- com>
Cc: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
Subject: Re: Calling all math whizzes
Message-ID: <12565555919547EE971CDB1A8EE3E80C -at- WQIMJS>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8";
    reply-type=original

Consider the audience, not tech writers who haven't coded. It doesn?t take 
years of college math to know that a caret is the usual symbol to denote an 
exponent. And that in code there is no concept of a superscript. If the 
audience is IT people, I think it safe to assume that they won't even pause 
at 2^80.

I vote for 2^80.

-Monique 



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 14:27:28 -0400
From: Dossy Shiobara <dossy -at- panoptic -dot- com>
To: "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Subject: Re: Calling all math whizzes
Message-ID: <543C1990 -dot- 7010305 -at- panoptic -dot- com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

If the audience is IT/web folks, then "2^80" is the most clear
expression of the number.  The "^" character is the standard notation
for exponent, i.e., if you do this at a shell prompt:

$ echo 2 80^p | dc
1208925819614629174706176

Since IT/web folks aren't math people, we never see "2^80" as "2 to the
80th power" but we read that as "80 bits."  Using an actual
superscripted "80" would be confusing, as it would look more like a
numerical value, 2 to the 80th power, or approximately 1.2e24 (aka 1.2 *
10^24).

Just throwing my 2^1 cents out there :-) ...


On 10/13/14 1:49 PM, Chris Morton wrote:
> I've never seen this nomenclature before: 2^80
>
> Does this mean 2 to the 80th power?
>
> Is there a better way to express it, such as eliminating the carat and
> superscripting the 80?
>
> The target audience is IT folks running data centers and other web geeks. I
> don't think anyone can assume that each has a higher mathematics degree.

-- 
Dossy Shiobara         |      "He realized the fastest way to change
dossy -at- panoptic -dot- com     |   is to laugh at your own folly -- then you
http://panoptic.com/   |   can let go and quickly move on." (p. 70) 
  * WordPress * jQuery * MySQL * Security * Business Continuity *



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 11:29:40 -0700
From: Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>
To: Dossy Shiobara <dossy -at- panoptic -dot- com>
Cc: "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Subject: Re: Calling all math whizzes
Message-ID:
    <CAO7RWYTrEfknqz0XhgtQ_quMsmHbVVDhffEFRdQe1_t-FD1++g -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

OK, you win.

2^80 it is.

Thanks

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Dossy Shiobara <dossy -at- panoptic -dot- com> wrote:

> If the audience is IT/web folks, then "2^80" is the most clear
> expression of the number.  The "^" character is the standard notation
> for exponent, i.e., if you do this at a shell prompt:
>
> $ echo 2 80^p | dc
> 1208925819614629174706176
>
> Since IT/web folks aren't math people, we never see "2^80" as "2 to the
> 80th power" but we read that as "80 bits."  Using an actual
> superscripted "80" would be confusing, as it would look more like a
> numerical value, 2 to the 80th power, or approximately 1.2e24 (aka 1.2 *
> 10^24).
>
> Just throwing my 2^1 cents out there :-) ...
>
>
> On 10/13/14 1:49 PM, Chris Morton wrote:
> > I've never seen this nomenclature before: 2^80
> >
> > Does this mean 2 to the 80th power?
> >
> > Is there a better way to express it, such as eliminating the carat and
> > superscripting the 80?
> >
> > The target audience is IT folks running data centers and other web
> geeks. I
> > don't think anyone can assume that each has a higher mathematics degree.
>
> --
> Dossy Shiobara         |      "He realized the fastest way to change
> dossy -at- panoptic -dot- com     |   is to laugh at your own folly -- then you
> http://panoptic.com/   |   can let go and quickly move on." (p. 70)
>   * WordPress * jQuery * MySQL * Security * Business Continuity *
>
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Read about how Georgia System Operation Corporation improved teamwork,
> communication, and efficiency using Doc-To-Help | http://bit.ly/1lRPd2l
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com -dot- 
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
>
>
> Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot-  Visit
> http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/ for more resources and
> info.
>
> Looking for articles on Technical Communications?  Head over to our online
> magazine at http://techwhirl.com
>
> Looking for the archived Techwr-l email discussions?  Search our public
> email archives @ http://techwr-l.com/archives
>


------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 14:31:40 -0400
From: John G <john -at- garisons -dot- com>
To: Dossy Shiobara <dossy -at- panoptic -dot- com>
Cc: "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Subject: Re: Calling all math whizzes
Message-ID:
    <CAFJnaP77p64KopKfDugGgv8zj3G1f8nppxuCh3nSGKuP5xHHHA -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

And if for some reason it gets printed out or copied/pasted as plain text,
you'll still be able to see the exponent as an exponent.

2^80

My 2?




On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Dossy Shiobara <dossy -at- panoptic -dot- com> wrote:

> If the audience is IT/web folks, then "2^80" is the most clear
> expression of the number.  The "^" character is the standard notation
> for exponent, i.e., if you do this at a shell prompt:
>
> $ echo 2 80^p | dc
> 1208925819614629174706176
>
> Since IT/web folks aren't math people, we never see "2^80" as "2 to the
> 80th power" but we read that as "80 bits."  Using an actual
> superscripted "80" would be confusing, as it would look more like a
> numerical value, 2 to the 80th power, or approximately 1.2e24 (aka 1.2 *
> 10^24).
>
> Just throwing my 2^1 cents out there :-) ...
>
>
> On 10/13/14 1:49 PM, Chris Morton wrote:
> > I've never seen this nomenclature before: 2^80
> >
> > Does this mean 2 to the 80th power?
> >
> > Is there a better way to express it, such as eliminating the carat and
> > superscripting the 80?
> >
> > The target audience is IT folks running data centers and other web
> geeks. I
> > don't think anyone can assume that each has a higher mathematics degree.
>
> --
> Dossy Shiobara         |      "He realized the fastest way to change
> dossy -at- panoptic -dot- com     |   is to laugh at your own folly -- then you
> http://panoptic.com/   |   can let go and quickly move on." (p. 70)
>   * WordPress * jQuery * MySQL * Security * Business Continuity *
>
>
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------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:47:16 -0700
From: Jay Maechtlen <techwriter -at- laserpubs -dot- com>
Cc: "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Subject: Re: Calling all math whizzes
Message-ID: <543C2C44 -dot- 9040908 -at- laserpubs -dot- com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On 10/13/2014 11:31 AM, John G wrote:
> And if for some reason it gets printed out or copied/pasted as plain text,
> you'll still be able to see the exponent as an exponent.
>
> 2^80
>
> My 2?
>
What's funny about this thread is, in Thunderbird (my email client), 
each of those expressions (except for the sup /sup codes) showed a very 
nice numeral 2 with 80 in superscript.

that is, none of them showed as "2 ^ 80"
so it really depends on the delivery channel!

cheers
Jay

-- 
Jay Maechtlen
626 444-5112 office
626 840-8875 cell
www.laserpubs.com


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------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 13:04:36 -0700
From: Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
To: TECHWR-L Writing <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Subject: syntax diagramming tool
Message-ID:
    <CAN3Yy4BgZbDC3Fwm+xVEgARm7OpaieMj9D-yvWyW+BcLK0o4Wg -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Any recommendations? Preferably single-source to HTML and PDF.

Oracle's are kind of slick as in the HTML version they have text alternatives:

http://docs.oracle.com/cd/B19306_01/server.102/b14200/statements_10002.htm#i2065706

Teradata is maybe PDF only? See page 220.

http://tunweb.teradata.ws/tunstudent/TeradataUserManuals/Teradata_SQL_Quick_Reference.pdf

Microsoft Transact-SQL uses ASCII, which is what I'm currently using.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms189499.aspx


------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 16:39:04 -0500
From: Scott Turner <quills -at- airmail -dot- net>
To: "Janoff, Steven" <Steven -dot- Janoff -at- hologic -dot- com>
Cc: "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Subject: Re: Flare or Frame as an intermediary for migrating to DITA?
Message-ID: <5B536F9B-E318-411E-BE4A-08E2B73184B8 -at- airmail -dot- net>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii

I disagree with Robert's assessment. Though the test is in what condition the imported file is in. If it's line formatted then no matter what you use to import the file for conversion, you will have a lot of manual work. 

The import filters in FrameMaker do an adequate job of importing Word files and retaining the paragraph and character tagging. 

When using Word files that include graphics I normally save the word file as an html file to export the graphics for latter inclusion by reference in FrameMaker. 

I have had mediocre experiences with Flare, and I never found it particularly easy to use or create documents from. 


> On Oct 13, 2014, at 11:28, Janoff, Steven <Steven -dot- Janoff -at- hologic -dot- com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Robert -- this helps big-time.
> 
> Steve
> 
> On Sunday, October 12, 2014 11:39 AM, Robert Lauriston wrote:
> 
> I wouldn't use FrameMaker as an intermediary. It's not very good at importing anything.
> 
> Flare does a pretty clean job of importing Word and FrameMaker, and can export to DITA. However, I'm not sure that would save you any time over using whatever native tools your DITA environment has. Worth a try but I would not expect much if any of the content to be tagged correctly.
> 
>> On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Janoff, Steven <Steven -dot- Janoff -at- hologic -dot- com> wrote:
>> Short version of the question:  If you're converting legacy content from unstructured to structured in XML/DITA, and let's say you have or will have a CCMS with either a built-in XML editor or a third-party one like oXygen or XMetaL... Would it make sense to use either Flare or Structured FrameMaker as your intermediary to convert unstructured content to XML/DITA and then export to your CCMS with editor?
> 
> 
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 15:41:04 -0700
From: Laura Lemay <lemay -at- lauralemay -dot- com>
To: Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
Cc: TECHWR-L Writing <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Subject: Re: syntax diagramming tool
Message-ID: <9C916BB0-3753-4962-9FFB-C1EEBB7FC583 -at- lauralemay -dot- com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


The "ascii form" you mention is called EBNF ("extended backus-naur format") and there is a specification for defining languages in it.  The diagrams are called railroad diagrams and are usually generated from the EBNF itself.  

Note that EBNF is a technical specification, and the commands/syntax you are documenting may not actually conform to EBNF depending on how sloppy your developer is.  

Laura


On Oct 13, 2014, at 1:04 PM, Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com> wrote:

> Any recommendations? Preferably single-source to HTML and PDF.
> 
> Oracle's are kind of slick as in the HTML version they have text alternatives:
> 
> http://docs.oracle.com/cd/B19306_01/server.102/b14200/statements_10002.htm#i2065706
> 
> Teradata is maybe PDF only? See page 220.
> 
> http://tunweb.teradata.ws/tunstudent/TeradataUserManuals/Teradata_SQL_Quick_Reference.pdf
> 
> Microsoft Transact-SQL uses ASCII, which is what I'm currently using.
> 
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms189499.aspx
> 
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Read about how Georgia System Operation Corporation improved teamwork, communication, and efficiency using Doc-To-Help | http://bit.ly/1lRPd2l
> 
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
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> http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/ for more resources and info.
> 
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> 
> Looking for the archived Techwr-l email discussions?  Search our public email archives @ http://techwr-l.com/archives



------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 00:33:53 +0000
From: "Janoff, Steven" <Steven -dot- Janoff -at- hologic -dot- com>
To: Scott Turner <quills -at- airmail -dot- net>, Robert Lauriston
    <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>, "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com"
    <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Subject: RE: Flare or Frame as an intermediary for migrating to DITA?
Message-ID:
    <E7C7A1460010834090FD4D6E82F28D151C813B13 -at- ussdexch01 -dot- hologic -dot- corp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Maybe I can make this more meaningful for you.

Let's assume you would prefer Frame for this purpose.

I would want to know, have you used a CCMS with a built-in XML editor or a third-party XML editor such as oXygen, XMetaL, or the like?

And if yes to that, then do you think you would get better ROI by using FrameMaker as an intermediary to prepare your raw source files in DITA format for use in the CCMS, or would you have been better off abandoning FrameMaker for that purpose and going right to the native tool in the DITA environment (the CCMS's XML editor, whether built-in or third-party)?

That's the question *I'm* asking, and Robert is suggesting that NEITHER FrameMaker nor Flare will buy me an advantage over the native tool.

Do you feel differently?

Thanks,

Steve

On Monday, October 13, 2014 2:39 PM, Scott Turner [mailto:quills -at- airmail -dot- net] wrote:

I disagree with Robert's assessment. Though the test is in what condition the imported file is in. If it's line formatted then no matter what you use to import the file for conversion, you will have a lot of manual work. 

The import filters in FrameMaker do an adequate job of importing Word files and retaining the paragraph and character tagging. 

When using Word files that include graphics I normally save the word file as an html file to export the graphics for latter inclusion by reference in FrameMaker. 

I have had mediocre experiences with Flare, and I never found it particularly easy to use or create documents from. 


> On Oct 13, 2014, at 11:28, Janoff, Steven <Steven -dot- Janoff -at- hologic -dot- com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Robert -- this helps big-time.
> 
> Steve
> 
> On Sunday, October 12, 2014 11:39 AM, Robert Lauriston wrote:
> 
> I wouldn't use FrameMaker as an intermediary. It's not very good at importing anything.
> 
> Flare does a pretty clean job of importing Word and FrameMaker, and can export to DITA. However, I'm not sure that would save you any time over using whatever native tools your DITA environment has. Worth a try but I would not expect much if any of the content to be tagged correctly.
> 
>> On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Janoff, Steven <Steven -dot- Janoff -at- hologic -dot- com> wrote:
>> Short version of the question:  If you're converting legacy content from unstructured to structured in XML/DITA, and let's say you have or will have a CCMS with either a built-in XML editor or a third-party one like oXygen or XMetaL... Would it make sense to use either Flare or Structured FrameMaker as your intermediary to convert unstructured content to XML/DITA and then export to your CCMS with editor?



------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 18:16:22 -0700
From: Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
To: Laura Lemay <lemay -at- lauralemay -dot- com>,    TECHWR-L Writing
    <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Subject: Re: syntax diagramming tool
Message-ID:
    <CAN3Yy4C9yxWMS1FzuYhXueK1uKNBsQ6m710M3qzSLhJAm34QTA -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

In that Oracle doc it looks to me like both the text command syntax (
http://docs.oracle.com/cd/B19306_01/server.102/b14200/img_text/model_rules_clause.htm
) and the railroad diagram GIF (
http://docs.oracle.com/cd/B19306_01/server.102/b14200/img/model_rules_clause.gif
) are generated from EBNF (or whatever source Oracle uses to define
their SQL grammar).

Do you know any tools that can do that?

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Laura Lemay <lemay -at- lauralemay -dot- com> wrote:
>
> The "ascii form" you mention is called EBNF ("extended backus-naur format") and there is a specification for defining languages in it.  The diagrams are called railroad diagrams and are usually generated from the EBNF itself.


------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 19:38:03 -0700
From: Laura Lemay <lemay -at- lauralemay -dot- com>
To: Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
Cc: TECHWR-L Writing <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Subject: Re: syntax diagramming tool
Message-ID: <EB9A8FB9-C6C2-4E4B-8EB0-8F30A13EBC56 -at- lauralemay -dot- com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


I haven't worked with EBNF since the 90's, and I drew the railroads by hand.  But googling "ebnf diagram generator" turns up:

http://www.bottlecaps.de/rr/ui - web-based, copy your EBNF into the form
http://dotnet.jku.at/applications/visualizer/ - for windows, free
http://www.sqlite.org/docsrc/finfo?name=art/syntax/bubble-generator.tcl  - one specific to SQL

Laura

On Oct 13, 2014, at 6:16 PM, Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com> wrote:

> In that Oracle doc it looks to me like both the text command syntax (
> http://docs.oracle.com/cd/B19306_01/server.102/b14200/img_text/model_rules_clause.htm
> ) and the railroad diagram GIF (
> http://docs.oracle.com/cd/B19306_01/server.102/b14200/img/model_rules_clause.gif
> ) are generated from EBNF (or whatever source Oracle uses to define
> their SQL grammar).
> 
> Do you know any tools that can do that?
> 
> On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Laura Lemay <lemay -at- lauralemay -dot- com> wrote:
>> 
>> The "ascii form" you mention is called EBNF ("extended backus-naur format") and there is a specification for defining languages in it.  The diagrams are called railroad diagrams and are usually generated from the EBNF itself.



------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 21:01:26 -0700
From: Mark Giffin <mgiffin -at- earthlink -dot- net>
To: "Janoff, Steven" <Steven -dot- Janoff -at- hologic -dot- com>,
    "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Subject: Re: Flare or Frame as an intermediary for migrating to DITA?
Message-ID: <543CA016 -dot- 40106 -at- earthlink -dot- net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

On 10/13/14 5:33 PM, Janoff, Steven wrote:
> I would want to know, have you used a CCMS with a built-in XML editor or a third-party XML editor such as oXygen, XMetaL, or the like?
I've used Oxygen, XMetal, Arbortext, others, as well as several CCMS 
built-in editors. The built-in editors are usually browser-based and 
simplified, with the intention being that non-trained users would use 
them to give feedback or write simple content. SDL Trisoft\LiveContent 
has one of these (it used to be called Xopus but now I think it's called 
LiveContent Create). easyDITA has one that is pretty good for simple 
work. I doubt these editors would be very useful for converting non-DITA 
content.

Every CCMS I know of works with one or more of the big-name XML editors 
like XMetal and Oxygen. Some are more integrated than others. For 
example, SDL has what they call authoring bridges for XMetal, Oxygen, 
Structured FrameMaker etc. They integrate SDL capabilities into the 
menus of the editor (check in/check out, search, etc.). You can use 
easyDITA with Oxygen but it is not as integrated, Oxygen uses a WebDav 
interface to the repository and it does not have menus specific to 
easyDITA. With the DocZone CCMS, you can use Xopus or something like 
XMetal. And so on.

> And if yes to that, then do you think you would get better ROI by using FrameMaker as an intermediary to prepare your raw source files in DITA format for use in the CCMS, or would you have been better off abandoning FrameMaker for that purpose and going right to the native tool in the DITA environment (the CCMS's XML editor, whether built-in or third-party)?
I don't think I can answer if FrameMaker of Flare would be more useful 
to you as an intermediary. I'd have to see what you are converting. You 
earlier listed as legacy content plain text, Word, unstructured Frame, 
InDesign, Flare. Each one might need a different method.

If you found that Flare imported Word reasonably well, and you could get 
it to output DITA files that were close to what you wanted, then maybe 
it would be good for that. I suspect that Flare is better at Word import 
than FrameMaker but you should try both (since it sounds like you have 
the licenses). I have used Flare to import DITA files and it worked 
pretty well, but I have not used it to output DITA. Flare isn't a DITA 
editor even though you can use it to monkey around with DITA files.

If the files are unstructured FrameMaker, you can use Frame's export 
conversion table capability to add structure. That gives you a lot of 
control over the structure. Or you could use Mif2Go with Frame, it's 
pretty good at that kind of conversion, and not expensive (it might even 
be free since its creator recently passed away).

InDesign has an XML output format but it tends to be hard to deal with 
in a conversion.

With plain text, I'd probably write a script that made it into DITA. Or 
you can cut and paste.

If you are motivated, it would be valuable to learn some XSLT or another 
scripting language. Then you could get content into some text format, 
like with Flare, and then take it further with a script. Or you could 
use a programmer's text editor like Notepad++ and use it to do find and 
replace. These text editors support "regular expressions" and if you 
learned how to use them (it's not real hard) one of these text editors 
can be a powerful tool in your conversion project. You can do a certain 
amount of restructuring with a good regex.

And the quantity of content you want to convert is going to make a big 
difference in your project. If you have maybe 500 or 1000 topics, then 
maybe you won't mind messing around with various things and doing some 
cut and paste. But if you have 10,000 or 20,000 it gets silly to do them 
manually. But you always end up needing to do something manually in a 
conversion, there are just too many variables.

You should look into conversion companies like Stilo and DCL. Stilo has 
an online website-style converter where you set up the conversion 
yourself and run it. It could be reasonably priced.

Mark Giffin
Mark Giffin Consulting, Inc.
http://markgiffin.com/



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