Re: Re: It doesn't look good for Tina the Tech Writer ... OK, this makes for a good segue

[INKtopia Admin <admin -at- inktopia -dot- net>]

Folks,

Julie is spot on. Tina is an integral part of the history of TechWhirl, but
we have rules... one of which is to stick to technical communications.
Politics and religion, and Scott Adams attitudes towards women, are
completely out of bounds. Corporate attitudes towards tech comm is an
acceptable alternative, but watch your step and get back on topic.

Leave the political debates to your other threads.

Thank you

Connie Giordano
Moderator

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Julie Stickler <jstickler -at- gmail -dot- com> wrote:

> Not to be a curmudgeon, but this conversation thread has drifted from being
> about Tina or about technical writing and is getting dangerously close to
> starting to talk about politics.
>
> I've had my fill of politics lately and would like to avoid it on TECHWR-L
> if at all possible.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Back to the word mines for me.
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Kathleen MacDowell <
> kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
> > wrote:
>
> > I don't know much abt his preferred candidate, but that post strikes a
> lot
> > of chords for me. Always nice to have someone else to blame for once ...,
> > although it'll be cringeworthy. I also think political think has nothing
> > much to do with gender.
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ron Hearn <rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Further to yesterday's discussion on Scot's attitudes toward women,
> there
> > > is this from his blog last week:
> > >
> > > http://blog.dilbert.com/post/151737656851/the-era-of-women
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: techwr-l-bounces+rhearn=cucbc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com [mailto:
> > > techwr-l-bounces+rhearn=cucbc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com] On Behalf Of
> Keith
> > > Hood
> > > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 1:56 PM
> > > To: vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com
> > > Cc: techwr-l <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> > > Subject: Re: Re: It doesn't look good for Tina the Tech Writer ... OK,
> > > this makes for a good segue
> > >
> > > I agree that a good tech writer is just as valuable to the company as
> an
> > > engineer. But my experience has proven to me beyond any possible doubt
> > that
> > > the overwhelming majority of managers who make the retention decisions
> do
> > > not agree.
> > >
> > > Another certification in a field which is not valued by the people who
> > > make the retention decisions is not going to help. That's kind of like
> > > having a dozen layers of frosting on a Brussels sprout cake. It's not
> > going
> > > to win the baking competition.
> > >
> > > What needs to happen is for someone to finally come up with a way to
> > PROVE
> > > that the tech writer's work adds value to the product. There has to be
> > some
> > > way to express it in numbers and show that the work really does bump up
> > the
> > > bottom line on the quarterly report. Until that happens, certifications
> > may
> > > be useful in grading applicants for hiring decisions, but they will be
> > > meaningless to retention.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 3:10 PM, Vincent <vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > >    Friends,
> > > >    When the first rush of replies on this flowed in, I got angrier
> and
> > > >    angrier as I quickly parsed.  Angry at y'all that is (no
> disrespect
> > > >    intended here) for missing the critical issue against your current
> > > >    chosen profession.  I wanted to write then but I too, as Kathleen
> > > >    understands, must choose my fires to quench.  At the moment, I
> have
> > a
> > > >    little time.
> > > >    Being too long involved in IT, I have chuckled at select Dilberts
> > now
> > > >    and again when people have point them out, but I have never been
> an
> > > >    avid fan.  That, and Mr. Adams' gender imbalance :)
> notwithstanding,
> > > >    the real insult within the Dilbert installment under discussion is
> > > that
> > > >    the TW character is being presented as less valuable than an
> > inherent
> > > >    engineer asset.  Nothing could be more untruthful or a better
> > example
> > > >    of program management misperception.
> > > >    Yes, of course certain senior engineers -- and even engineers with
> > > >    seniority -- are essential and invaluable to an R&D team, and
> > deserve
> > > >    to recognized as such.  However, generally speaking, good
> engineers
> > > are
> > > >    readily available and replaceable, but a good technical writer is
> > not.
> > > >     The experienced and capable technical writer, while he or she
> > suffers
> > > >    being regarded as a peer -- and mistakenly by Mr. Adams less -- is
> > > >    actually senior in contribution to most engineers.  Without the
> > > >    documentation process, application worklfow errors, system design
> > > >    errors, database architecture endless loops, and coding foopahs of
> > > >    every rushed and improperly tested kind would make it passed the
> > > >    staging cycle. Without proper documentation there is lessened
> > > >    accountability to management.  The technical writer is above an
> > > >    engineer.  Engineers who don't take a TW's request for a meeting
> > > >    seriously probably shouldn't be trusted to do their own work
> > > >    excellently and should be let go.
> > > >    Having spent some time working inside federal agencies, it always
> > > >    bothered me how silly it is for the way PMP certification is
> > esteemed
> > > >    (again, no disrespect intended, but experience trumps the PMP
> > > >    certificate 100% of the time).  I have long had a dream that
> > technical
> > > >    writers need their own certification, such CPTW (Certified
> > > Professional
> > > >    Technical Writer), likened to CPCM, CFCM, and to have that
> > credential
> > > >    promoted and recognized properly.  And while I have spawned many
> > ideas
> > > >    on how to chase that dream, I am only now getting to
> semi-retirement
> > > >    hours so that perhaps I can.
> > > >    Thoughts?  Reactions?  Anyone want to work on/pursue establishment
> > of
> > > >    CPTW with me?
> > > >    Vincent
> > > >    www.linkedin.com/in/vincentpasqualeruvolo
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >    On 10/17/16, Kathleen MacDowell<kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >    It's been interesting to see everyone's interpretations, which are
> > > >    sometimes much deeper than my own.
> > > >    I haven't seen Dilbert for many years, but I've always viewed him
> > > >    similar
> > > >    to a Tom and Jerry (or any other) cartoon.
> > > >    He managed to convey my feelings about some of the idiocies we
> > > >    encounter at
> > > >    work; ah yes, restraining the fist of death.
> > > >    Sad to say, some people have real grudges that are expressed in
> the
> > > >    real
> > > >    world. And truly, as hard some of the work/life realities are to
> > bear
> > > >    sometimes, we have a lot more pressing things to deal with right
> > now.
> > > >    Most of us are subject to some kind of inequalities, some of us
> more
> > > >    than
> > > >    others. It would be wonderful if it could be reduced...
> > > >    Kathleen
> > > >    On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 12:46 PM, kafkascampi
> > > >    <[1]kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com> wrote:
> > > >    > Not to be a buzzkill (which means I am totally about to be a
> > > >    > buzzkill), Scott Adams has some controversial views about women
> in
> > > >    the
> > > >    > workplace. This is one of the reasons I choose not to support
> him.
> > > >    >
> > > >    > Read more here:
> > > >    > [2]http://comicsalliance.com/scott-adam-sexist-mens-rights/
> > > >    >
> > > >    > Chris
> > > >    >
> > > >    > On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Tony Chung <[3]
> > tonyc -at- tonychung -dot- ca>
> > > >    wrote:
> > > >    > > False alarm. A week later Tina agrees to be pointy head's
> "work
> > > >    wife"
> > > >    > > [4]http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-14
> > > >    > >
> > > >    > > -Tony (also in Vancouver)
> > > >    > >
> > > >    > > On Thursday, 6 October 2016, Ron Hearn <[5]
> rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com>
> > > >    wrote:
> > > >    > >
> > > >    > >> Looks like Tina is getting the axe in today's Dilbert:
> > > >    > >> [6]http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-06
> > > >    > >>
> > > >    > >>
> > > >    > >>
> > > >    > >> Ron Hearn
> > > >    > >> Documentation Specialist
> > > >    > >>
> > > >    > >> Central 1 Credit Union
> > > >    > >> 1441 Creekside Drive
> > > >    > >> Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
> > > >    > >> V6J 4S7
> > > >    > >>
> > > >    > >> [7]rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
> > > >    <javascript:;><[8]mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
> > > >    > >> <javascript:;>>
> > > >    > >> Tel: 604.730.6391
> > > >    > >> Fax: 604.730-7792
> > > >    > >>
> > > >    > >>
> > > >    > >>
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> > > >    --
> > > >    Kathleen MacDowell
> > > >    [19]kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
> > > >    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > >    Visit TechWhirl for the latest on content technology, content
> > strategy
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> > > > References
> > > >
> > > >    1. mailto:kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com
> > > >    2. http://comicsalliance.com/scott-adam-sexist-mens-rights/
> > > >    3. mailto:tonyc -at- tonychung -dot- ca
> > > >    4. http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-14
> > > >    5. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
> > > >    6. http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-06
> > > >    7. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
> > > >    8. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
> > > >    9. http://techwhirl.com/
> > > >   10. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> > > >   11. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
> > > >   12. http://techwhirl.com/
> > > >   13. http://techwr-l.com/archives
> > > >   14. http://techwhirl.com/
> > > >   15. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> > > >   16. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
> > > >   17. http://techwhirl.com/
> > > >   18. http://techwr-l.com/archives
> > > >   19. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
> > > >   20. http://techwhirl.com/
> > > >   21. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> > > >   22. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
> > > >   23. http://techwhirl.com/
> > > >   24. http://techwr-l.com/archives
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> > --
> > Kathleen MacDowell
> > kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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>
>
> --
> Julie Stickler
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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