Re: Re: Re: Re: It doesn't look good for Tina the Tech Writer ... OK, this makes for a good segue

[Vincent <vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com>]

   Good questions and comments.  So let me clarify my thinking.  Given the
   way this forum gang-formats my responses (for whatever reason), I have
   enumerated your immediate comments to help correlate to mine:  To wit:

   1) From decades past, I hold a 'certificate' in Advanced Technical
   Writing from NYIT in Old Westbury NY.  While the program was enjoyable
   and beneficial, the certificate I acquired does NOT qualify as a
   professional certification such as one would include on most job
   applications.  To offer an analogy, in pursuit of CPCM certification,
   UCI offers a wholly online program in contract management studies.
   When you complete that, you indeed can get a 'certificate' from UCI in
   contract management, but it is not considered to be a
   professional/expertise certification.  You still have to take the test
   with certification the with the NCMA to be professionally certified in
   that area.  It is such a certification that for us TWs does not exist.
    I envision collaborating with a recognized certification institute and
   creating the track for CPTW by identifying the study requisites and
   creating the exam.

   2) Absolutely!  Please note that earlier in this topic thread I stated
   that for PMP 'experience trumps the certification 100% of the time'.  I
   believe that CPTW certification will make a difference in customer
   attitude once it has been established, accepted and promoted.  But of
   course, between all-other-aspects-being equal candidates, if both were
   to be CPTW certified, and one has ample experience while the other does
   not, the experienced candidate would prevail.  I am not suggesting that
   certification displaces experience -- it doesn't for ANY type of
   certification.  I am suggesting that in most IT (as well as other
   industry) shops, the TW is incorrectly regarded as being a lesser
   specialist, and this perception needs to be remediated.

   3) I hope so!  While that is unnecessary, it broadens one's offering.
   I had joined a startup in 1997 as the sole technical writer asset (do
   notice I refer to staff as assets not resources).  This was back in the
   day of the 'new economy' when we were just hearing about companies like
   AOL, eBay, Yahoo, Netscape, etc., and most of us were dabbling in
   stocks despite our lack of experience in investing.  Having a company
   website was just beginning to be recognized as a basic marketing tenet
   and portal.  One day, the founder of the startup walked to over to my
   cubicle and dropped an HMTL 1.0 textbook on my desk, and said to me:
   "congratulations, you are our webmaster; build me a website."  I
   discovered that HTML tags were similar to the midrange text writing
   application I had used at Computer Associates before it transitioned to
   Windows 1.0 with MS-Word 1.0.  But I had to self-learn much through
   tenacity and pain (notice I didn't say suffering), e.g., how to handle
   animated animated gifs (initially, I would push whole giant gifs making
   its page load and the animation very slow till I figured out to just
   push the changing segments of the gifs; talk about novice!).
   Eventually, among many other roles over time, I became the VP of
   Product Design outsourcing the coding to a huge team in Boston called
   Breakaway (they were rapid development; they are gone).  I co-authored
   hundreds of pages of interface & workflow and back office specs.
   But always remember nonetheless, 'respect' will come not so much from
   your expertise and capabilities -- in that regard we are all always
   expendable and replaceable, albeit some more than others -- but how
   much you contribute beyond your required deliverables.  It is the duty
   of all assets, no matter her/his role, to contribute to the capture and
   retention of revenue of any commercial enterprise.
   Sir Vincent


   On 10/18/16, Kathleen MacDowell<kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com> wrote:

   Sir Vincent,
   1) There are schools/colleges that offer tech writing tracks. How do
   you picture a certificate covering material that those students
   wouldn't offer?
   2) I can't judge whether a certificate would make a difference in
   customer attitude. Even so, there are some skills that only experience
   can teach, and some that everyone can't learn.
   3) I do wonder if the most skilled will end up designing interfaces,
   though, and that will undoubtedly provide more respect.
   Kathleen
   On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Vincent <[1]vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com>
   wrote:

        Sticking with the core topic threads (Tina the TW, and my
     comments on
        TW recognition general):
        I certainly agree with the many points made by one of this
     forum's
        contributors in response to my submission on this:
        Indeed, if there were a TW certification, HR/hiring managers
     would or
        could use that qualification to filter applications.  But I like
     to
        think that will serve as a motivation for continuing education
     among us
        (yes, I am deliberately mixing tenses for effect).
        Indeed, the recognition of a TW will never be what it should be
     until
        development (and other) managers recognize our true level of
        contribution (and stop thinking of some of you as labor and low
     on the
        totem pole).
        Also, I chuckled a bit when I read the analogy to 'brussel
     sprout'
        cake.  Firstly, I neglected to fully think forward that I was
     writing
        to other writers with creative satire.  Secondly, I love brussel
     spouts
        -- grilled or broiled -- but have never contemplated them in a
     cake.
        However, I have been inspired by this to develop a recipe for
     using
        them in quiche.
        Having said all that:  While I respectfully agree with your
     perspective
        points, I still think that TW certification is good idea, would
     be a
        benefit to those who want to make a FULL career of technical
     writing,
        would ultimately result in more competitive compensation, and
     simply
        would raise the professionalism and skill-specialty acceptance of
     TWs
        in general.  It would subsequently foster the manager recognition
     in
        concern.
        Sir Vincent
        On 10/18/16, Julie Stickler<[2]jstickler -at- gmail -dot- com> wrote:
        Not to be a curmudgeon, but this conversation thread has drifted
     from
        being
        about Tina or about technical writing and is getting dangerously
     close
        to
        starting to talk about politics.
        I've had my fill of politics lately and would like to avoid it on
        TECHWR-L
        if at all possible.
        Thanks!
        Back to the word mines for me.
        On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Kathleen MacDowell
        <[1][3]kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
        > wrote:
        > I don't know much abt his preferred candidate, but that post
     strikes
        a lot
        > of chords for me. Always nice to have someone else to blame for
     once
        ...,
        > although it'll be cringeworthy. I also think political think
     has
        nothing
        > much to do with gender.
        >
        > On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ron Hearn
     <[2][4]rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com>
        wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > Further to yesterday's discussion on Scot's attitudes toward
     women,
        there
        > > is this from his blog last week:
        > >
        > >
     [3][5]http://blog.dilbert.com/post/151737656851/the-era-of-women
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From:
     techwr-l-boun[4]ces+rhearn=[6]cucbc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
        [mailto:
        > > techwr-l-boun[5]ces+rhearn=[7]cucbc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com]
     On Behalf
        Of Keith
        > > Hood
        > > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 1:56 PM

      > > To: [6][8]vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com
      > > Cc: techwr-l <[7][9]techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
      > > Subject: Re: Re: It doesn't look good for Tina the Tech Writer
   ...
      OK,
      > > this makes for a good segue
      > >
      > > I agree that a good tech writer is just as valuable to the
   company
      as an
      > > engineer. But my experience has proven to me beyond any possible
      doubt
      > that
      > > the overwhelming majority of managers who make the retention
      decisions do
      > > not agree.
      > >
      > > Another certification in a field which is not valued by the
   people
      who
      > > make the retention decisions is not going to help. That's kind
   of
      like
      > > having a dozen layers of frosting on a Brussels sprout cake.
   It's
      not
      > going
      > > to win the baking competition.
      > >

        > > What needs to happen is for someone to finally come up with a
     way
        to
        > PROVE
        > > that the tech writer's work adds value to the product. There
     has to
        be
        > some
        > > way to express it in numbers and show that the work really
     does
        bump up
        > the
        > > bottom line on the quarterly report. Until that happens,
        certifications
        > may
        > > be useful in grading applicants for hiring decisions, but
     they will
        be
        > > meaningless to retention.
        > >
        > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 3:10 PM, Vincent
     <[8][10]vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com>

      wrote:
      > >
      > > > Friends,
      > > > When the first rush of replies on this flowed in, I got
   angrier
      and
      > > > angrier as I quickly parsed. Angry at y'all that is (no
      disrespect
      > > > intended here) for missing the critical issue against your
      current
      > > > chosen profession. I wanted to write then but I too, as
   Kathleen
      > > > understands, must choose my fires to quench. At the moment, I
      have
      > a
      > > > little time.
      > > > Being too long involved in IT, I have chuckled at select
   Dilberts
      > now
      > > > and again when people have point them out, but I have never
   been
      an
      > > > avid fan. That, and Mr. Adams' gender imbalance :)
      notwithstanding,
      > > > the real insult within the Dilbert installment under
   discussion
      is
      > > that
      > > > the TW character is being presented as less valuable than an
      > inherent
      > > > engineer asset. Nothing could be more untruthful or a better
      > example
      > > > of program management misperception.
      > > > Yes, of course certain senior engineers -- and even engineers
      with
      > > > seniority -- are essential and invaluable to an R&D team, and
      > deserve
      > > > to recognized as such. However, generally speaking, good
      engineers
      > > are
      > > > readily available and replaceable, but a good technical writer
   is
      > not.
      > > > The experienced and capable technical writer, while he or she
      > suffers
      > > > being regarded as a peer -- and mistakenly by Mr. Adams less
   --
      is
      > > > actually senior in contribution to most engineers. Without the
      > > > documentation process, application worklfow errors, system
   design
      > > > errors, database architecture endless loops, and coding
   foopahs
      of
      > > > every rushed and improperly tested kind would make it passed
   the
      > > > staging cycle. Without proper documentation there is lessened
      > > > accountability to management. The technical writer is above an
      > > > engineer. Engineers who don't take a TW's request for a
   meeting
      > > > seriously probably shouldn't be trusted to do their own work
      > > > excellently and should be let go.
      > > > Having spent some time working inside federal agencies, it
   always
      > > > bothered me how silly it is for the way PMP certification is
      > esteemed
      > > > (again, no disrespect intended, but experience trumps the PMP
      > > > certificate 100% of the time). I have long had a dream that
      > technical
      > > > writers need their own certification, such CPTW (Certified
      > > Professional
      > > > Technical Writer), likened to CPCM, CFCM, and to have that
      > credential
      > > > promoted and recognized properly. And while I have spawned
   many
      > ideas
      > > > on how to chase that dream, I am only now getting to
      semi-retirement
      > > > hours so that perhaps I can.
      > > > Thoughts? Reactions? Anyone want to work on/pursue
   establishment
      > of
      > > > CPTW with me?
      > > > Vincent

        > > > [9][11]www.linkedin.com/in/vincentpasqualeruvolo
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > On 10/17/16, Kathleen
     MacDowell<[10][12]kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com>
        wrote:
        > > >
        > > > It's been interesting to see everyone's interpretations,
     which
        are
        > > > sometimes much deeper than my own.
        > > > I haven't seen Dilbert for many years, but I've always
     viewed him
        > > > similar
        > > > to a Tom and Jerry (or any other) cartoon.
        > > > He managed to convey my feelings about some of the idiocies
     we
        > > > encounter at
        > > > work; ah yes, restraining the fist of death.
        > > > Sad to say, some people have real grudges that are
     expressed in
        the
        > > > real
        > > > world. And truly, as hard some of the work/life realities
     are to
        > bear
        > > > sometimes, we have a lot more pressing things to deal with
     right
        > now.
        > > > Most of us are subject to some kind of inequalities, some
     of us
        more
        > > > than
        > > > others. It would be wonderful if it could be reduced...
        > > > Kathleen
        > > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 12:46 PM, kafkascampi
        > > > <[1][11][13]kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com> wrote:
        > > > > Not to be a buzzkill (which means I am totally about to
     be a
        > > > > buzzkill), Scott Adams has some controversial views about
     women
        in
        > > > the
        > > > > workplace. This is one of the reasons I choose not to
     support
        him.
        > > > >
        > > > > Read more here:
        > > > >
     [2][12][14]http://comicsalliance.com/scott-adam-sexist-mens-rights/
        > > > >
        > > > > Chris
        > > > >
        > > > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Tony Chung <[3]
        > [13][15]tonyc -at- tonychung -dot- ca>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > > > False alarm. A week later Tina agrees to be pointy
     head's
        "work
        > > > wife"
        > > > > > [4][14][16]http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-14
        > > > > >
        > > > > > -Tony (also in Vancouver)
        > > > > >
        > > > > > On Thursday, 6 October 2016, Ron Hearn
        <[5][15][17]rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > >> Looks like Tina is getting the axe in today's Dilbert:
        > > > > >> [6][16][18]http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-06
        > > > > >>
        > > > > >>
        > > > > >>
        > > > > >> Ron Hearn
        > > > > >> Documentation Specialist
        > > > > >>
        > > > > >> Central 1 Credit Union
        > > > > >> 1441 Creekside Drive
        > > > > >> Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
        > > > > >> V6J 4S7
        > > > > >>
        > > > > >> [7][17][19]rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
        > > > <javascript:;><[8][18]mailto:[20]rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
        > > > > >> <javascript:;>>
        > > > > >> Tel: [21]604.730.6391
        > > > > >> Fax: [22]604.730-7792
        > > > > >>
        > > > > >>
        > > > > >>
        > > > > >
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        > > > --
        > > > Kathleen MacDowell
        > > > [19][31][37]kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
        > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
        > > > Visit TechWhirl for the latest on content technology,
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     Visit
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        > > > References
        > > >
        > > > 1. [37]mailto:[45]kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com
        > > > 2.
     [38][46]http://comicsalliance.com/scott-adam-sexist-mens-rights/
        > > > 3. [39]mailto:[47]tonyc -at- tonychung -dot- ca
        > > > 4. [40][48]http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-14
        > > > 5. [41]mailto:[49]rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
        > > > 6. [42][50]http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-06
        > > > 7. [43]mailto:[51]rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
        > > > 8. [44]mailto:[52]rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
        > > > 9. [45][53]http://techwhirl.com/
        > > > 10. [46]mailto:[54]techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
        > > > 11.
     [47][55]http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
        > > > 12. [48][56]http://techwhirl.com/
        > > > 13. [49][57]http://techwr-l.com/archives
        > > > 14. [50][58]http://techwhirl.com/
        > > > 15. [51]mailto:[59]techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
        > > > 16.
     [52][60]http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
        > > > 17. [53][61]http://techwhirl.com/
        > > > 18. [54][62]http://techwr-l.com/archives
        > > > 19. [55]mailto:[63]kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
        > > > 20. [56][64]http://techwhirl.com/
        > > > 21. [57]mailto:[65]techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
        > > > 22.
     [58][66]http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
        > > > 23. [59][67]http://techwhirl.com/
        > > > 24. [60][68]http://techwr-l.com/archives
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     References
        1. mailto:[105]kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
        2. mailto:[106]rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
        3.
     [107]http://blog.dilbert.com/post/151737656851/the-era-of-women
        4. mailto:[108]ces+rhearn=[109]cucbc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
        5. mailto:[110]ces+rhearn=[111]cucbc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
        6. mailto:[112]vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com
        7. mailto:[113]techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
        8. mailto:[114]vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com
        9. [115]http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentpasqualeruvolo
       10. mailto:[116]kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
       11. mailto:[117]kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com
       12. [118]http://comicsalliance.com/scott-adam-sexist-mens-rights/
       13. mailto:[119]tonyc -at- tonychung -dot- ca
       14. [120]http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-14
       15. mailto:[121]rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
       16. [122]http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-06
       17. mailto:[123]rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
       18. mailto:[124]rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
       19. [125]http://techwhirl.com/
       20. mailto:[126]kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com
       21. mailto:[127]techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
       22. [128]http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
       23. [129]http://techwhirl.com/
       24. [130]http://techwr-l.com/archives
       25. [131]http://techwhirl.com/
       26. mailto:[132]kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
       27. mailto:[133]techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
       28. [134]http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
       29. [135]http://techwhirl.com/
       30. [136]http://techwr-l.com/archives
       31. mailto:[137]kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
       32. [138]http://techwhirl.com/
       33. mailto:[139]techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
       34. [140]http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
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       37. mailto:[143]kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com
       38. [144]http://comicsalliance.com/scott-adam-sexist-mens-rights/
       39. mailto:[145]tonyc -at- tonychung -dot- ca
       40. [146]http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-14
       41. mailto:[147]rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
       42. [148]http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-06
       43. mailto:[149]rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
       44. mailto:[150]rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
       45. [151]http://techwhirl.com/
       46. mailto:[152]techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
       47. [153]http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
       48. [154]http://techwhirl.com/
       49. [155]http://techwr-l.com/archives
       50. [156]http://techwhirl.com/
       51. mailto:[157]techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
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       53. [159]http://techwhirl.com/
       54. [160]http://techwr-l.com/archives
       55. mailto:[161]kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
       56. [162]http://techwhirl.com/
       57. mailto:[163]techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
       58. [164]http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
       59. [165]http://techwhirl.com/
       60. [166]http://techwr-l.com/archives
       61. [167]http://techwhirl.com/
       62. mailto:[168]techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
       63. [169]http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
       64. [170]http://techwhirl.com/
       65. [171]http://techwr-l.com/archives
       66. [172]http://techwhirl.com/
       67. mailto:[173]techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
       68. [174]http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
       69. [175]http://techwhirl.com/
       70. [176]http://techwr-l.com/archives
       71. [177]http://techwhirl.com/
       72. mailto:[178]techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
       73. [179]http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
       74. [180]http://techwhirl.com/
       75. [181]http://techwr-l.com/archives
       76. mailto:[182]kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
       77. [183]http://techwhirl.com/
       78. mailto:[184]techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
       79. [185]http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
       80. [186]http://techwhirl.com/
       81. [187]http://techwr-l.com/archives
       82. [188]http://techwhirl.com/
       83. mailto:[189]techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
       84. [190]http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
       85. [191]http://techwhirl.com/
       86. [192]http://techwr-l.com/archives

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   Send administrative questions to [196]admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot-  Visit
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   resources and info.
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   [200]kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com

References

   1. mailto:vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com
   2. mailto:jstickler -at- gmail -dot- com
   3. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
   4. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
   5. http://blog.dilbert.com/post/151737656851/the-era-of-women
   6. mailto:cucbc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
   7. mailto:cucbc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
   8. mailto:vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com
   9. mailto:techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
  10. mailto:vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com
  11. http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentpasqualeruvolo
  12. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
  13. mailto:kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com
  14. http://comicsalliance.com/scott-adam-sexist-mens-rights/
  15. mailto:tonyc -at- tonychung -dot- ca
  16. http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-14
  17. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
  18. http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-06
  19. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
  20. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
  21. http://tel:604.730.6391/
  22. http://tel:604.730-7792/
  23. http://techwhirl.com/
  24. mailto:kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com
  25. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
  26. mailto:admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com
  27. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
  28. http://techwhirl.com/
  29. http://techwr-l.com/archives
  30. http://techwhirl.com/
  31. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
  32. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
  33. mailto:admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com
  34. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
  35. http://techwhirl.com/
  36. http://techwr-l.com/archives
  37. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
  38. http://techwhirl.com/
  39. mailto:vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com
  40. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
  41. mailto:admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com
  42. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
  43. http://techwhirl.com/
  44. http://techwr-l.com/archives
  45. mailto:kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com
  46. http://comicsalliance.com/scott-adam-sexist-mens-rights/
  47. mailto:tonyc -at- tonychung -dot- ca
  48. http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-14
  49. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
  50. http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-06
  51. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
  52. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
  53. http://techwhirl.com/
  54. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
  55. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
  56. http://techwhirl.com/
  57. http://techwr-l.com/archives
  58. http://techwhirl.com/
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  60. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
  61. http://techwhirl.com/
  62. http://techwr-l.com/archives
  63. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
  64. http://techwhirl.com/
  65. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
  66. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
  67. http://techwhirl.com/
  68. http://techwr-l.com/archives
  69. http://techwhirl.com/
  70. mailto:bus -dot- write -at- gmail -dot- com
  71. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
  72. mailto:admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com
  73. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
  74. http://techwhirl.com/
  75. http://techwr-l.com/archives
  76. http://techwhirl.com/
  77. mailto:RHearn -at- cucbc -dot- com
  78. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
  79. mailto:admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com
  80. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
  81. http://techwhirl.com/
  82. http://techwr-l.com/archives
  83. http://techwhirl.com/
  84. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
  85. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
  86. mailto:admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com
  87. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
  88. http://techwhirl.com/
  89. http://techwr-l.com/archives
  90. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
  91. http://techwhirl.com/
  92. mailto:jstickler -at- gmail -dot- com
  93. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
  94. mailto:admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com
  95. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
  96. http://techwhirl.com/
  97. http://techwr-l.com/archives
  98. http://techwhirl.com/
  99. mailto:vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com
 100. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
 101. mailto:admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com
 102. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
 103. http://techwhirl.com/
 104. http://techwr-l.com/archives
 105. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
 106. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
 107. http://blog.dilbert.com/post/151737656851/the-era-of-women
 108. mailto:ces%2Brhearn
 109. mailto:cucbc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
 110. mailto:ces%2Brhearn
 111. mailto:cucbc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
 112. mailto:vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com
 113. mailto:techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
 114. mailto:vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com
 115. http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentpasqualeruvolo
 116. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
 117. mailto:kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com
 118. http://comicsalliance.com/scott-adam-sexist-mens-rights/
 119. mailto:tonyc -at- tonychung -dot- ca
 120. http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-14
 121. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
 122. http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-06
 123. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
 124. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
 125. http://techwhirl.com/
 126. mailto:kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com
 127. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
 128. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
 129. http://techwhirl.com/
 130. http://techwr-l.com/archives
 131. http://techwhirl.com/
 132. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
 133. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
 134. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
 135. http://techwhirl.com/
 136. http://techwr-l.com/archives
 137. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
 138. http://techwhirl.com/
 139. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
 140. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
 141. http://techwhirl.com/
 142. http://techwr-l.com/archives
 143. mailto:kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com
 144. http://comicsalliance.com/scott-adam-sexist-mens-rights/
 145. mailto:tonyc -at- tonychung -dot- ca
 146. http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-14
 147. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
 148. http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-06
 149. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
 150. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
 151. http://techwhirl.com/
 152. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
 153. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
 154. http://techwhirl.com/
 155. http://techwr-l.com/archives
 156. http://techwhirl.com/
 157. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
 158. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
 159. http://techwhirl.com/
 160. http://techwr-l.com/archives
 161. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
 162. http://techwhirl.com/
 163. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
 164. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
 165. http://techwhirl.com/
 166. http://techwr-l.com/archives
 167. http://techwhirl.com/
 168. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
 169. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
 170. http://techwhirl.com/
 171. http://techwr-l.com/archives
 172. http://techwhirl.com/
 173. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
 174. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
 175. http://techwhirl.com/
 176. http://techwr-l.com/archives
 177. http://techwhirl.com/
 178. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
 179. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
 180. http://techwhirl.com/
 181. http://techwr-l.com/archives
 182. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
 183. http://techwhirl.com/
 184. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
 185. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
 186. http://techwhirl.com/
 187. http://techwr-l.com/archives
 188. http://techwhirl.com/
 189. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
 190. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
 191. http://techwhirl.com/
 192. http://techwr-l.com/archives
 193. http://techwhirl.com/
 194. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
 195. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
 196. mailto:admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com
 197. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
 198. http://techwhirl.com/
 199. http://techwr-l.com/archives
 200. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
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