Re: Stealing Technical Writing (Was: Using...)

["Stephen D. Martin" <smartin -at- RC -dot- GC -dot- CA>]

Tim Altom wrote:
>
> Stephen Martin Replies, In Part:
>
> >> But how about links to specific topics *inside* proprietary help
> >> files? I may not be able to steal your exact wording and put it in
> >> my own help file, but what's the legality of _linking_ to that
> >> topic, which is, in essence, using the wording for my own
> >> commercial purposes? Can the help file owner forbid this? On one
> >
> >The question is, why would the help file owner want to forbid it?  In
> >Mendler's case the linking consists of, "If you want to know about
> >this, that or the other about third-party product X, go here".
> >Wouldn't the third-party product owners be more likely to get upset
> >if their documentation was re-written without their permission?


> >> If the Web is any indicator, the answer is "maybe". Just because
> >> you
> >
> >The answer is "no".  In any opinion I've seen or heard postings to
> >mailing lists, newsgroups, the Web, etc., are judged to be copyright
> >and under the protection of the copyright act along with all of the
> >"fair use" and other provisions.
> >
> The point to any legal intellectual property protection isn't to
> safeguard words; it's to safeguard your rights to make money on your
> stuff.

Yes, and you seem to have missed my point.

The relevant quote is:

TA> Is the help file owner giving tacit consent to raiding his creation?

TA> If the Web is any indicator, the answer is "maybe". Just because you
TA> access a website, you can't assume you can copy anything from it.
TA> But similarly, the law (as little as there is) assumes that if
you're
TA> putting information on a website, you're releasing it to the
universe.

Is the owner giving consent to raid his creation?  You said "maybe", and
I said "no".  You then said, "just because you can access...", and I
agree entirely.  I disagree, however, with the implication that the law
assumes it's an information free for all.

In short my position is that one can't simply take and use (integrate)
someone else's information (posted to the mailing list, the web, etc.),
for their commercial gain.

> A help file owner invests lots of money developing that file. You
> obviously can't just copy it onto a disk and resell it. That would
> be theft.

Agreed, but I don't believe it was an issue for Mendler.

> But can you give the user your own link to a topic *within* a help
> file already on the hard drive, just to save yourself from having to
> recreate it?

Let's say that Mendler works for Adobe, writing documentation for
FrameMaker.  Let's say that HotTaMaLe (hope that's right), is the
third-party widget (it isn't, but this makes for a clearer example).

Adobe says, "Let us integrate this widget with our product for it is
great and the gods smile upon it and it'll make us rich to do so.", and
so they approach P.R. Ogrammer, the owner of HotTaMaLe and they buy his
soul for a few million bucks.

Does it then make sense for Mendler to rewrite the existing help files,
or simply link from the FrameMaker to them?  If Adobe is merely changing
the product name and bundling (as opposed to actually merging the code),
the two products, I say link away.  The help file author has already
been paid for his efforts.

On the other hand, if you're simply loading the help files with links to
DLLs, etc., on the hope/chance that the end-user has the file on their
hard drive then you're guilty of producing bloatware.

> Is that a violation of copyright, since you're essentially forcing the
> system to "copy" the victim's topic without paying him for it? Or,

You're not forcing anything, you are allowing the user to access the
alledged victim's own help file, which the user paid for, so there's no
"without paying him for it".

> You can refuse access *beyond* the first page, but not *link* access
> to that page.

I can't see why that would be.  Anybody should be free to point to the
data.  It's like a footnote in an essay, which says, "I got this
particular piece of information from this specific book."  Obviously on
paper you can't make a hyperlink, but you can give the reader an ISBN or
it's Dewey Decimal number which allows them to buy the book at the store
or look it up at the library.  Similarly with hypertext you are saying,
"The data came from *here* <-(hyperlink to DLL or web page with data)."

The link is a pointer to a location, it is completely up to the user
whether or not they follow the link, or go to the library, etc.

> If I was the help file owner and my help file was being "appropriated"
> for somebody else's application that I knew nothing about, I'd be
> picking up a phone, especially if the usurper is making money on me

If "somebody else's application", is referencing your help file which
the user bought when the user bought your product, what does it matter
whether or not you know about it, and how is the "usurper" making money
on you?

Perhaps this simple rule will help:

        Do not reference anything which you can not reasonably expectation will
exist on the user's system.

I suspect this discussion has become too abstract to be considered on
topic so perhaps any continuation should be moved to e-mail.

Cheers!

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