Re: Value of giving up numbering in Word?

["Edwin Skau" <eddy -dot- skau -at- gmail -dot- com>]

There's a Chinese, or Indian, or Russian professional out there who'll fix
your numbering problem in a jiffy.

Edwin



On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Tim Mantyla <TimMantyla -at- nustep -dot- com> wrote:

> I've been beating against a brick wall on numbering too. I've gotten some
> instructions and ideas from list members and they are too hard to do or
> take too much time to do with repetitive keystrokes, copying, F9s, etc.
> Some i haven't tried because I'm too burned out on the others that seemed
> easy but really took hours to figure out, try, and I'm still testing in
> Doc-To-Help, which I don't know how it will affect them going through it.
> It seems at first glance to have changed them to C1H numbering from SEQ
> fields originally, which could be problematic.
>
> This issue has taken up way too much of my time, and my supervisors are
> pushing for completion while this issue hangs over me, sucking up more and
> more time.  I'm considering either:
>
>  - manually numbering the many lists of instructions (maybe 20-30 lists of
> 5-19 lines of instructions?) or
>  - doing away with numbered instructions altogether (probably
> quicker--just reformat them).
>
>
> Does anyone avoid numbering in a list of many--from 5 to 15 or
> more--instructions? How is that working out?
>
> What is the great value of numbering instructions anyway? Is there a
> realistic, evidence-based concern that the reader will lose his way, or is
> this just a convention that tech writers do without considering the
> alternative--not using numbered lists at all?
>
>
> Got some instructions on macros and SEQ and LISTNUM in the techwhirl and
> other archives. It took me a few hours to learn and try the SEQ fields,
> and I had limited success, except that the numbers aren't formatted the
> way I want them...e.g., like 1) or 1.  They just show up as "1" and "2"
> right nest to the text. I'm just getting burned out on all the research
> and testing needed to implement this whole thing. I really feel frustrated
> about it, and angry that Microsoft can't just get it right after so many
> years.
>
> The Shauna Kelly thing is way too involved to try. It's way too much work
> to get this to work, it should just be a setting adjustment in Word and
> have it STAY, ROVER, STAY. This is not a dog with its own free will, it's
> a computer program designed to do what we command it to do.
>
> I just want something SIMPLE, QUICK and it ALWAYS WORKS in EVERY
> CIRCUMSTANCE. Which is why I'm thinking of not dealing w/ numbering. Don't
> do it, no hassles.
>
> Just look at the Vast Mess of Alternative Solutions available. Who knows
> what works and what doesn't, and why? Who has time to test all these? With
> all this controversy in public on the Internet, why isn't Word just fixed
> already?
>
> Here are some solution excerpts:
> ----------
>
> Subject: Re: Word Templates & Numbered Lists - VBA? SEQ?
> From: dmbrown -at- brown-inc -dot- com
> To: "TECHWR-L" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 14:05:00 -0700
>
> > need help with making sure numbered lists work properly.
>
> Several of us have posted instructions on using SEQ fields to produce
> absolutely dependable numbered lists. Unfortunately, I can't find ANY of
> them in the Techwr-L archives <:( so here's one I posted...
>
> ======================================================================
> Here's how to get solid numbered lists every time:
>
> For the first item in a NUMBERED list:
>
> { SEQ numlist \# "0" \r 1 \* MERGEFORMAT }
>
> ...
> ----------
> Subject: Re: Word Templates & Numbered Lists - VBA? SEQ?
> From: suzy -dot- davis -at- doi -dot- vic -dot- gov -dot- au
> To: "TECHWR-L" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:28:41 +1000
> Hi Ardene
>
> Pre-XP I used SEQ numbering, and developed a SEQ numbering tool in VBA
> (with a friend who was a better developer at the time) which inserts the
> SEQ number field for the selected level to the selected paragraph(s).
> There is also a button which removes the SEQ fields and associated spaces
> and tabs from selected paragraphs. And if the selection already has some
> numbering, either SEQ fields or other is removes them and adds the
> selected
> SEQ field level.
> I worked on a lot of tender responses so I loved using the SEQ field
> method
> because it gave me control, and I liked it better when it became a more
> automated process.
>
> Since XP I discovered that if you build your outline number styles through
> the user interface they can be reasonably stable as long as you define the
> numbering via the level 1 style's numbering definition. (If you want me to
> elaborate more on that give me a yell).
>
> But the most stable way since XP is to build your styles and outline lists
> via VBA, and I have now developed a tool which does this. You store all
> your style style and numbering definitions in a spreadsheet, and I've
> found
> this works very well, and is very stable. Helps with managing clients
> template definitions as well.
>
> If you are interested in either of these tools, please contact me
> off-list.
>
> regards
> Suzy Davis
> Create Space Pty Ltd
> e: suzy -dot- davis -at- createspace -dot- com -dot- au
>
>
> WhittleseyA -at- dekalblibrary -dot- org
> Sent by: To: "TECHWR-L" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> bounce-techwr-l-165345 -at- lists -dot- t cc:
> echwr-l.com Subject: Word Templates & Numbered Lists - VBA? SEQ?
>
>
> 09/10/04 01:08 AM
> Please respond to WhittleseyA
>
> I'm developing a template in Word for a training manual, and need help
> with making sure numbered lists work properly. I'm curious about how
> people have done it so I don't have to reinvent the wheel. What's better -
> Word macros? VBA? SEQ fields?
>
> I'm currently working in Word 2003 on Windows 2000.
>
> I've read the MS Word MVP article on how lists work, but can't seem to
> find anything on the web describing how people use various tools to do
> this.
>
> Thanks for your assistance.
>
> Ardene Whittlesey
>
> --------
> From: "Stuart Burnfield" <slb -at- westnet -dot- com -dot- au>
> Subject: Re: Seq field solution?
> To: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Message-ID: <380-2200834645428634 -at- westnet -dot- com -dot- au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
> I followed the advice on the Shauna Kelly site, and this page in
> particular:
> http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html
>
> The Word MVPs site is also very good:
> http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Numbering.htm
>
> No need for SEQ fields, and so far, so good.
>
> Stuart
> ---------
> These macros and SEQ field solutions look very time consuming, tried the
> SEQ insert thing and it takes too many keystrokes with F9 just to insert
> these.
>
>
> I just want a simple solution.  Is there one? The best solution looks like
> giving up numbering altogether.
>
>
> Tim
>
> ---------
> > From: jopakent -at- comcast -dot- net
> > Subject: Seq field solution?
>
> > I've done this too many times to be beating my head on this AGAIN!
> >
> > I thought I'd mastered Word's numbering "joy" to the extent that I'd
> > be able to set up a simple set of Heading 1, 2, & 3 that would
> > number as 1.0, 1.1, & 1.1.1, but after a week of on again off again
> > performance I'm approaching ga-ga-land.
> >
> > As this is a new gig and a new set of opportunities, my first
> > response to seeing that I am going to be working with Word and
> > nested, numbered headings was to do some Google searches on seq fields.
> >
> > Alas, I didn't really find a solution that worked. I know that seq
> > fields work pretty well (we used em for numbering appendix figures
> > and tables in my last gig), but what I was hoping to find was
> > something that would be somewhat automatic once I set it up. I
> > thought I'd be able to define a numbering level, associate it with a
> <snip>
> > --
> > J. Paul Kent
> > 206-383-0539
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 21
> > Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 17:38:15 -0500
> > From: "Dan Goldstein" <DGoldstein -at- riverainmedical -dot- com>
> > Subject: RE: Seq field solution?
> > To: <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> > Message-ID:
> >    <0ADA9A22B5BC2147B360A22FD2BAD25C0104689C -at- RMGBEX01 -dot- rmg -dot- local>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Sounds like a job for AutoNumLgl fields, which update automatically
> > according to their place in the document hierarchy. I always use them
> > for numbering headings (usually for figures and tables, too). Just as
> > solid as SEQ fields, and you don't even have to press F9!
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: jopakent
> > > Subject: Seq field solution?
> > >
> > > ... I thought I'd mastered Word's numbering "joy" to
> > > the extent that I'd be able to set up a simple set
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