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Subject:Re: reduced relative clause: -ing form vs. which From:Phil Snow Leopard <philstokes03 -at- googlemail -dot- com> To:"McLauchlan, Kevin" <Kevin -dot- McLauchlan -at- safenet-inc -dot- com> Date:Thu, 29 Mar 2012 21:53:07 +0700
On 29 Mar 2012, at 21:39, McLauchlan, Kevin wrote:
> Item [b], by the use of "which", _defines_ what a ZIP file is (in this case, a ZIP file is defined as containing whatever items are listed after "...the following..."). That's wrong.
> Either a ZIP file is a compressed archive of any of a vast assortment of possible file contents, OR a ZIP file is now redefined to be "a thing containing exactly what a 'custom map' would contain"
If the writer is defining 'a custom map' and not a Zip file, then [a], [b] or [c] are all incorrect. The 'zip file' part should be in a non-defining clause:
"A custom map, which is a Zip file, contains..."
Phil
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: techwr-l-bounces+kevin -dot- mclauchlan=safenet-inc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-
>> l.com [mailto:techwr-l-bounces+kevin.mclauchlan=safenet-
>> inc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com] On Behalf Of Phil Snow Leopard
>> Sent: March-29-12 10:26 AM
>> To: B.J. Smith
>> Cc: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
>> Subject: Re: reduced relative clause: -ing form vs. which
>>
>> All of the following are grammatically correct and all mean the same
>> thing:
>>
>> [a] A custom map is a ZIP file containing the following...
>>
>> [b] A custom map is a ZIP file which contains the following...
>>
>> [c] A custom map is a Zip file that contains the following...
>>
>> Both [b] and [c] are defining relative clauses. I wouldn't call [a] a
>> clause at all (though some grammar books do) because for me a clause by
>> definition has to have a subject and a tensed verb.
>>
>> I'd call [a] (or at least this part of it "containing the
>> following...") either an adjective phrase or a participle phrase.
>>
>> As for usage, personally I prefer to use the least verbiage to get the
>> message across clearly, so I'd plump for [a] other things being equal.
>> Those "other things" might include:
>>
>> -In some genres and styles of writing, its better to be verbose
>> -in some genres you may want to vary sentence patterns (e.g., if you
>> had a couple of sentences with defining relative clauses one after the
>> other, you might want to use the adjective phrase to avoid a repetitive
>> style).
>>
>> The short answer is there is no 'correct' or 'more correct' pattern to
>> use in any absolute sense. Like so many things with writing (and what
>> makes it an art), It's a matter of style, context and purpose.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> On 29 Mar 20 12, at 21:14, B.J. Smith wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure about the "reduced relative clause" question, but I
>> would prefer [b] after replacing "which" with "that."
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/29/2012 7:46 AM, Yves Barbion wrote:
>>>> Hi again group
>>>>
>>>> Which do you prefer and why:
>>>>
>>>> [a] A custom map is a ZIP file containing the following...
>>>>
>>>> [b] A custom map is a ZIP file which contains the following...
>>>>
>>>> Am I right in thinking that "a" is a "reduced relative clause",
>> which is
>>>> incorrect in this particular example?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>
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